|Redshift. I received the following from...|
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24 èþëÿ 2003 ã. 22:45
Òåìà: Redshift. I received the following from...
from Prof. Santilli and Prof. Marmet. Any comments?
PROPOSED EXPERIMENT ON THE EXPECTED REDSHIFT OF SUN LIGHT WHEN
PROPAGATING WITHIN OUR ATMOSPHERE AS A PARTIAL CONTRIBUTION OF THE THE
TRANSITION FROM BLUE TO RED IN THE PROPAGATION OF SUN LIGHT FROM ZENITH
TO THE HORIZON.
Without any obligation on your part, please consider some help to
propose at least some of the fundamental experiments identified in
in particular, Part 3, Section 3.8. Each of these experiments require a
specialized laboratory. Therefore, the only realistic possibility is
that of selecting a qualified lab for the selected experiment and
filing a simple "Preliminary Proposal", that is, a proposal solely
intended to see whether there is an interest. In the positive case, the
Preliminary Proposal should be followed by a highly specialized
proposal, both theoretical and experimental, prepared in collaboration
with local experimentalists.
This is typically the case of the measure of the apparent redshift of
elm waves when propagating within physical media. It requires an
astrophysical lab equipped with spectrometric equipment. In this case,
one or more lines of the Sunn light has to be followed from the Zenith
to the horizon (that implies an evident increase of travel within our
atmosphere) and see whether the frequency remains the same or it is
shifted toward the red. THAT'S ALL!
The prediction of special relativity is that there will be NO change due
to the well known ultra-fundamental postulate of the universal
constancy of the speed of light throughout all of the universe. Since
the speed of light does indeed decrease when propagating within
physical media (see the refraction of light- bending of a stick
partially submerged in water, etc.) the postulate of universal
constancy of the speed of light is salvaged by assuming that photons
scatter among the atom,s of the medium resulting in a travel that
increases with the density.
However, this is a pure PERSONAL BELIEF by SP supporters that has never
been tested experimentally. Also, Lorentz, Einstein, Minkowski and the
other founders of SR insisted repetitiously that their theory was
solely valid in EMPTY SPACE, and the extention to the totality of the
universe has been done by their followers to get chairs, money etc. all
based on Einstein's name. In particular, the SR was never intended to
act within physical media to such an extent that Lorentz was the first
to study the possible extension of his symmetry to a VARIABLE speed of
light C = c/n where n is the familiar index of refraction we study from
our high schools (he failed because he needed a completely new math, as
I discovered following 20 tears of efforts).
In conclusion, a postulate of such basic implications for all of physics
should be established via MEASUREMENTS, and not via academic power.
This was the situation some 20-30 years ago. Now the situation is
"distressing",. as I put it in Part 5 of www.neutronstructure.org
because of the discovery of speeds of light much bigger than that in
vacuum. In fact, the concoction of photons scattering among atoms is no
longer applicable to speeds bigger than c! See the exchanges to be
shortly uploaded in Part 6 of neutronstructure.org.
Therefore, the experimental reality today is what Lorentz knew well,
that the speed of light is a local VARIABLE C = c/n and that it is a
constant only in VACUUM where n = 1. However, since the energy cannot
change (appreciably) when the speed decreases, as it is the case for the
proposed experiment in our atmosphere, the wavelength INCREASES and the
frequency must DECREASE, resulting in the prediction of redshift of
light when its speed decreases. The proposed astrophysical test is based
on the fact that, to my knowledge it is easier to measure frequencies
Of course, as soon as redshift is considered as a "contribution" of the
tendency toward the red for Sun light at sunset, all orthodox physicists
immediately indicate that this is not possible because it has been
"proved" that the tendency toward the red is of scattering origin.
However, had this hypothesis been true, then WHY the sky is blue at the
Zenith? Since the sky is blue at the Zenith, we shouyld have a BIGGER
tendencyu toward the BLUER at the horizon. In short, the scattering
origin of the tendency toward the red at sunset is a pure belief that is
against evdience on the behaviour of light at the Zenith. Serious
physics cannot be solely based on that and MUST be resolved
The implications of the proposed astrophysical experiment are ENORMOUS
for ALL of our scientific knowledge. The confirmation of the VARIABLE
character of the speed of elm waves propagating within physical media
1) The necessary abandonment of special relativity and the validity of
more general relativities admitting the special solely in vacuum
(isospecial relativity is the only one I know providing universal
invariance for all possible speeds, as well as when no light can
propagate in a given medium yet dynamics is expected to exist!);
2) The consequential existence of new clean energies (such as the
stimulated decay of the neutron) that is possible if and only if the
speed of light in the hyperdense medium in its interior is BIGGER than
that in vacuum;
3) A structural revision of everything done so far in cosmology, such as
a drastic revision of the dimension of the universe (since that is based
on the redshift while such redshift could be solely caused by the
slowdown of light when propagating within the immense astrophysical
chromospheres according to which light exist a quasars or a galaxy
already redshifted....), the abandonment of the search of the imaginary
dark matter (since that conjecture is based on E = mc^2. If inside stars
and quasars we have C > c we have E = mC^2 >> mc^2 and no dark matter is
needed any more because existing matter has all the needed energy to
explain the gravitational behavior), etc. etc.
In conclusion, if you can, and without any obligation on your part,
please consider identifying ONE astrophysical laboratory in England or
elsewhere with a management serious in serious science. Once you have
their names and addresses, we can submit a formal, well written
. That proposal will stay in any case, that is, even if scientific
corruption will suffocate the test now, the proposal may surface later
when the politics on Einstein has subsided and we have done an important
service to science by just filing the proposal.
The paper for the other tests is the same: first identification of the
lab, and then the filing of a Preliminary Proposal.
You are interested in experiments on spectroscopic lines on the Sun observed
through different thickness of the Earth atmosphere. Your aim in repeating
that experiment is to verify whether the wavelength of light is shifted when
passing through a gas. I wish to show that experiments, leading to that
information have already been done about one hundred times, between 1907 and
A review of the problem, whether light is redshifted in gases, has been
published fourteen years ago in (IEEE Transactions on Plasma Science, Vol.
17 No: 2, April 1989). The answer is YES (as you will see below).
Of course, there is nothing wrong redoing experiments.
Let me explain how this has been done.
It was already well known in the 19th century (by Fraunhoffer) that the
wavelength of spectral lines of light received from the Sun is different on
its East solar limb with respect to its West limb. One side of the Sun's
disk is red shifted and the other side is blue shifted. This is easy to
explain. It is due to the rotation of the Sun on its axis.
However, in 1907, J. Halm, (in his paper: Über eine bisher unbekannte
verschiebung der Fraunhoferschen linien des sonnenspectrums, Astron, Nachr.,
Vol. 173, pp. 273-288, 1907.) discovered that the spectral lines on the Sun
also shows another feature. Between the center of the Sun and the limb,
there is also another change of wavelengths. This is called the
center-to-limb variation of solar lines. This center-to-limb variation is
superimposed on the wavelength shift due to the rotation of the sun.
This center-to-limb variation (limb shift) was a real puzzle and numerous
astrophysicists repeated these observations about one hundred times between
1907 and 1960. Observations were always perfectly consistent. I add
numerous references to those papers at the end of this letter.
You can get a general idea about these papers at
I even met an astrophysicist (L. A. Higgs) who repeated that experiment for
his Ph. D. thesis in 1960. There is an unbelievable story about that. This
is the first physicist I have seen, who refutes his own Ph. D. Thesis,
because he did not want to accept that his results could be explained only
as a redshift of light due to the passage through gases.
There is a much larger amount of gas near the surface of the Sun than in the
Earth atmosphere. It is observed that the redshift is symmetric around the
center toward the limb. Also the observed increase of redshift from the
center to the limb increases exactly as the increase of the amount of gases
as seem from the Earth. We can conclude that the center-to-limb variation
of redshift is due to light passing through gases. No other coherent
explanation has ever been found.
The interesting point is that the observation on Earth has been done at
different times of the day (therefore through different thickness of the
Earth atmosphere. This is necessary because, due to the Earth rotation,
there is a change of relative velocity between the Sun and the observer.
When the observation is done in the morning, or at noon or before sunset,
due to Earth rotation, there is Doppler shift (independently of an assumed
effect due to the Earth atmosphere). That change of velocity produces a
Doppler effect. That was mentioned and taken into account in the papers.
In addition, since the orbit of the Earth around the Sun is elliptical,
there is a radial velocity component, which varies during the year. That
factor has also been carefully taken into account in the papers.
The inelastic mechanism of interaction between light and atoms has been
studied theoretically using quantum mechanics and published in a book 22
years ago (in 1981) under the title : "A New Non-Doppler Redshift" . The
same idea has been published in Physics Essays, Vol. 1, No: 1, p. 24-32,
1988. This appears on the Web at:
The results, obtained from quantum mechanics calculations, are perfectly
compatible with the astrophysical observations of the center-to-limb
variation of solar lines mentioned above. However, the calculation shows
that the energy loss depends on some special characteristics of light. For
example, the redshift of light depends on the length of coherence of light.
Also the redshift also depends on the density of the interacting gas. The
redshift increases with density, but up to a limit. There is an optimum
pressure. Therefore if the pressure is too high, the redshift becomes
When light passes through gases, the physical condition giving maximum
redshift is that: " the length of coherence of light must be shorter than
the distance between the atoms of the gas."
From the calculation, we can see that the density of the atmosphere on
Earth is much too high to gives a measurable redshift. For the same reason,
when light passes through glass, the density of glass is too high to give a
redshift. Also, when light passes through long wires of fiber optics, the
density of the fibers is much too high to produce a measurable redshift as
explained and calculated in the original paper
However, the situation is different in the case of the gas around the sun.
The density is low enough to generate a measurable redshift.
The redshift observed when light passes through gases is not unique when it
is observed on the sun. That has been measured in many other astronomical
observations. When light passes through gases, the redshift of light has
been observed in numerous astronomical objects. For example, it has been
observed consistently in double stars, in nebula, in the K-Effect and in hot
stars. This has been published many years ago.
You can read the proofs of such a redshift in several papers. For example,
in the paper " Non-Doppler Redshift of Some Galactic Objects", which can be
found on the Web at:
Also, this phenomenon is also discussed in the paper: "Cosmic Matter and the
Nonexpanding Universe." That can be found at the address:
and also in the paper: "The 3 K Microwave Background and the Olbers
Paradox." which is reproduced on the Web at:
also in the paper: "The Cosmological Constant and the Redshift of Quasars"
at the address: http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/QUASARS/Quasars.html
Clearly, the real problem is not that there is a lack of observations
showing that light is redshifted when passing through gases.
Hundred of observations prove it, as you can read in the papers mentioned
The real problem is located in the brain of the astrophysicists. There is a
cell in their brains, which prevents them from questioning the Big Bang
It was the same problem in Galileo's time with respect to the Bible.
Humans do not change over the centuries.
I have examined all the references below about 15 years ago.
If you want any other information, let me know.
LIST OF SOME PAPERS RELATED TO THE MEASUREMENT OF THE CENTER-TO-LIMB RED
SHIFT DUE TO THE PHOTON ENERGY LOSS IN THE SUN'S ATMOSPHERE.
1 I. F. Boekelheide, Ph. D. Thesis, State University of Iowa, June 1952.
2 P. E. Cavanaugh, Phys. Rev. 87, 1131, 1952.
3 J. M. Jauch and F. Rohrlich, The Theory of Photons and Electrons,
Addison-Wesley, Cambridge, Mass, 1955.
4 L. I. Schiff, Quantum Mechanics, 2nd ed. p.417. McGraw-Hill, 1955.
5 G. Field, H. Arp, and J. N. Bahcall, The Redshift Controversy, W. A.
Benjamin, Inc., Reading, Mass, 1973.
6 A. Hewitt and G. Burbidge, Astrophys. J., Suppl. Ser. 43, 57, 1980.
7 J. Halm, Astron. Nachr. 173, 273, 1907.
8 W. S. Adams, Ap. J. 31, 30, 1910.
9 E. Finley-Freundlich, Phil. Mag. 7, 303, 1954.
10 L. A. Higgs, Mon. Not. R. Astron. Soc. 121, 167, 1960.
11 F. Cavallini, G. Ceppatelli, and A. Righini, Astron. Astrophys. 143,
12 E. Schatzman and C. Magnan, Astron. Astrophys. 38, 373, 1975.
13 L. V. Kuhi, J. C. Peker, and J. P. Vigier, Astron. Astrophys. 32, 111,
14 C. W. Allen, Astrophysical Quantities, 3rd ed. The Atlone Press, p.253,
15 G. Reber, Endless, Boundless, Stable Universe, University of Tasmania,
Australia, Occasional paper No: 9, 1977.
16 D. Walsh, R. F. Carswell, and R. J. Weymann, Sky & Telescope 58, 427,
17 J. B. Oke, Sky & Telescope, 58, 508, 1979.
18 W. L. Sargent, P. J. Young, A. Boksenberg, and D. Tytler, Abstract of
Astrophysics. J., Suppl. Ser. 42, 41, 1980.
19 N. Z. Scoville and D. B. Sanders, Physics Today 33, 17, 1980.
20 H. Arp and J. W. Sulentic, Astrophys. J. 229, 496, 1979.
21 H. Arp, Quasars, Redshifts and Controversies, Interstellar Media,
Berkeley, Calif., 1987.
22 M. M. Waldrop, Science 238, 894, 1987.
23 R. P. Feynmann, R. B. Leighton, and M. Sands, Lectures on Physics,
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24 M. Françon and S. Slansky, Cohérence en optique, Centre national de la
recherche scientifique, Paris, 1965.
25 P. Marmet, "A New Non-Doppler Redshift", (book), Département de
Physique, Université Laval, Québec, Canada, 1981.
26 R. Eisberg and R. Resnik, Quantum Physics of Atoms, Molecules, Solids,
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27 P. Marmet, The Cosmological Constant and the Redshift of Quasars" IEEE
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6, p. 958-964, 1992.
28 P. Marmet, Non-Doppler Redshift of Some Galactic Objects. IEEE
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